A CONVERSATION WITH JENNIFER D. SIX

Jennifer D. Six (yup, that is her real name) grew up near Denver, Colorado and now lives in Seattle, Washington. In 2004, one of her pieces, entitled "81 Cones", was selected to be part of the Pacific Northwest Quiltfest, a bi-annual event sponsored by the Association of Pacific Northwest Quilters. It's a major event, and a major accomplishment for someone who admits to being relatively new to the fabric arts. I recently spoke with Jen in her Seattle studio. We were joined by my husband, Mark.

J6: No, I never do. I just get an idea. Sometimes it's a color, like I'll say, "I'm gonna do... neutral colors." That's how that started (points to a work in progress hanging on the wall). I just wanted to get away from all the really wild colors that I've been working with lately.

CP: So is color your inspiration a lot of times? Is it an initial inspiration?

J6: Mmm... Everything is. I have various things I kind of keep cycling through. Color is one of them. But then I'll get into working with, for instance, a part of the body--like hair, fingers, eyes--something like that. I usually get a little idea in my head and I start playing around with it. Like, I just started doing these (points to a project she's working on) and they looked like teeth, and I thought, "Oh, teeth would be cool!", so then I make a zillion teeth and I figure out what I'm going to use them for. (Laughs) Just like the cones. I'm very meticulous. I like to take one little thing and make a zillion of it and then kinda let it create its own thing.

CP: So would you say that you often get your ideas from the work itself?

J6: From doing the work, yeah. When I was painting, it was hard for me to be inspired, because you've got this blank canvas and you have to figure out what to do with it. And paint, for me anyway, didn't lend itself to creating a use for itself. When I got into fabric, working in three-dimensions, the medium itself kind of tells you what to do with it.

CP: Have you always dabbled with fabric or did you get into this after you realized that paint just wasn't doing it for you?

J6: Yeah. Option B. (Laughs)

CP: We were talking earlier about the Lubbesmeyer sisters who are essentially almost painting with fabric. Is it accurate to say that you're sculpting with it?

J6: I think so, yeah.

CP: Do you ever make a huge batch of pieces--like teeth or cones or whatever--and then step back and say, "Why did I do that? There's nothing I can do with these!"

J6: (Laughs and nods) Up until last night, actually, that whole box of cones there, I was thinking, "I don't know if I'm ever gonna go back to those." I have this huge box of cones and I don't know if I'm gonna use them for anything. Then, last night, I pulled out that drawer and started picking out all the greens and yellows and I thought, "Maybe I'll do something with these."

CP: A lot of artists will work in series. They'll get an iconic image or something stuck in their head, and they'll just work with it from every angle until they've exhausted it. Do you ever work that way?

J6: Yeah, I do the same thing. The cones, for example, were a whole series in my head. I had an installation piece and everything. But I did one quilt and I got tired of making cones. So that's my problem. (Laughter)

CP: Well, Picasso said that art is never finished--only abandoned.

J6: (Laughs) Yeah. I think in series... But often, I start working on a project and the work will lead me in a different direction. Right now I'm kinda jumping from one thing to another. Maybe eventually I'll figure out what it all means and it'll look like a whole cohesive body of work.

CP: Is the way you're going to construct the piece part of the process for you? Are you experimenting with construction ideas as well as visual ideas and textural ideas?

J6: Yeah. That's why I think I often end up jumping from one subject to another: I'm always experimenting. The teeth were an experiment, the cones were. Everything right now is an experiment. I just did this last night (shows us a small vinyl piece she's been working on) and that's an experiment for something larger. I don't even know what I'm going to do with it yet, but I saw this stuff and I said, "Yeah! I've gotta make something with that!" Eventually it gets used and becomes something. Like with that little box for Ganesha (Hindu deity, known both as the "remover of obstacles" and as the "destroyer of pride" -ed). I'm just doing various experiments to see what works for me and what I can hang with for the longest while. Or maybe somehow all of these experiments will make their way into all of my work.

CP: I notice you're doing a construction on the wall here. How much time do you spend moving things around and playing with the design before you actually start constructing a piece?

J6: I think, when I do more scrap pieces where I'm using all my scraps and I just start sewing, that's kind of more of a Zen thing--just putting it together and not thinking too much. But if I start something and I like it, then I take a lot of time to think and move stuff around on the wall and the sewing time ends up being way less than the time I spend moving things around. Last night, I put up those pieces of paper and just laid on the floor and looked at them for a long, long time.

CP: For me, the planning ends up taking way longer than the construction.

J6: I think so.

CP: The cones project, start to finish, how much time was involved?

J6: Start to finish, I actually started it in Englewood [Colorado]. I started making cones and thought, "Oh, these are so cool!" So I made a half-dozen cones in Englewood. That's where I first came up with the idea. I finished it in August, after we'd moved to Seattle. So from start to finish--from the concept of the cones to the show--it was probably about two years.

CP: And when you first started making the cones, did you know what you were going to do with them? Or did you need to play with them for awhile before you knew what they were for?

J6: No, as soon as I made the first cone, I pretty much envisioned the entire piece. After I started it, I heard about the Pacific Northwest Quiltfest, and I knew that I could probably get the piece done in time to enter it. That gave me some motivation to just crank it out.

CP: It's quite an honor to be part of that show. What kind of response did you get?

J6: I got pretty much the response I expected. They said my quilting technique was lacking, which I already knew. The piece was very difficult to quilt after it was all constructed and three-dimensional.

CP: And do you think that's important for a fabric artist? Do you think technique is of major importance--or is it important to you, personally?

J6: It's not important to me. Of course it's important in traditional quilt making, which I highly respect. But I kind of find myself riding the middle line between art and traditional quilting.

CP: Do you do any traditional quilting?

J6: No, not really. The only traditional stuff I do is to make quilts for my niece and nephew. Otherwise, everything else is like this stuff.

CP: And then you just have to quilt them well enough so that they can stand going through the washer, and art doesn't really end up having to go through the washer too often.

J6: The only reason I'm concerned about the quilting aspect is because I am kind of riding that fine line. I haven't approached the galleries yet, so for now, the quilt world is where I'm at. I do need to quilt at least good enough to get into the shows and to have my work seen so that I can get the feedback, which is very valuable. But in the long run, that isn't going to be my major concern.

CP: Do you feel quilting is considered an "accepted" art form within the art community at this point? Or is it an art form within the quilting community?

J6: Um, it's an art form in the quilting community more so than it is in the art community, I think. But fiber art is becoming more and more accepted in the mainstream. It's exciting because I think we're around right when it's really starting to blossom. It's come out of the great tradition of quilt making and quilters and women's craft and art, but now it's becoming more accepted in the art world too. It's interesting because you get to see how your stuff is responded to in the quilt world, but also how it does in the galleries as well.

CP: Well, that's why I was asking, because you said that technique wasn't all that important to you, and I was thinking that, from the standpoint of sculpture, for instance, even if you look at even some of the really great modern art sculpture, when you look closely at the construction, you can see that often a piece isn't very carefully constructed. It's the idea that matters. You're trying to get an idea across, and whatever works is fine because you're communicating rather than making something for day-to-day use. With a piece of fabric art, as opposed to a traditional quilt, you're not going to be sleeping under it. Although there is a whole art quilt community...

J6: Which is still sort of a fine line too. I mean, I think the art quilt community is more about looking at fabric in an artistic sense but it's still highly bound by the world of traditional quilt making.

CP: Do you think someone like Nancy Crow--do you think her construction technique is...

J6: Actually, I've read about the way she works, and it sounds like our methods are similar. From what I've read, she started very traditionally and it sort of drove her batty. I guess she just cuts pieces and puts 'em on the wall and basically constructs the piece as she goes. I sort of do the same thing. But she's different because she'll make the top--she'll do the design part--and then have it quilted. So she's looking at it from an artistic point of view, but then having someone else do the traditional work of quilting.

CP: I'm looking at a piece of fabric that you said was hand-dyed by a friend of yours, who then gave it to you. And you said that it was some of your favorite fabric. Do often see a piece of fabric and say, "I've just got to make something with that," or...

J6: (Laughs) Yeah, I think I have...

CP: Well, because I wonder if you're looking at this in the way that a painter might look at paint.

J6: It is a palette--of fabric, as opposed to paint. But yeah, I'll see some fabric and buy ten yards of it because I want to make ten thousand pieces from it. That's what I love about fabric. I've always loved color, but I've never been inspired by a tube of paint. Fabric inspires me. I love the feel of it, the texture, the visual texture, the depth...

CP: I notice in this piece that you're currently working on, that you've got this sort of frayed, exposed edge. What I would normally think of as the back of the piece is being displayed on the front--as if you're trying to accentuate the texture and make it a very obvious part of the piece.

J6: Yeah, and also do the reverse of what's traditionally done in quilting, which is to make these perfect blocks and to hide the construction. When I first discovered quilting, I'd look at a quilt and think, "Wow--that looks like kind of a cool thing to do," but I had no idea how to do it. The way a quilt is constructed isn't obvious in a good quilt. So I started reading up on how to do it.

CP: Is this rebellious--putting the stitching on display like that?

J6: (Laughing) I guess it is...

CP: Are you intentionally thumbing your nose at tradition?

J6: (Laughs) Well, I'm intentionally showing what's normally hidden, so I guess you could say that. But mostly I'm just sort of doing my thing.

CP: That leads me to another question: Most artists have people in their chosen field that they admire and perhaps consider to be influences. Do you ever look to artists within the fiber arts community for ideas and inspiration, or are you more interested in traditional painting and sculpture?

J6: Definitely painting and sculpture. I like Nancy Crow a lot. I love how she uses geometrics and color. And when I read about how she works, I could really relate to it. I mean, she's probably the best-known fiber artist/quilt artist in the nation, and I love what she does.

CP: You're working here with some photocopies, and I'm wondering if you use that sort of thing a lot as placeholders for fabric blocks or pieces as you work. These blocks, for instance--did you start with a drawing of some sort?

J6: No. I just put those together using my original color ideas as the inspiration. I wanted to just keep it simple and geometric to put the focus on the color. I was trying to bring out the texture more here (points to another section) so this was started in a very different way. And then this (points to another section) was started because I had this old piece with a picture printed on the fabric...

CP: That's one of your paintings, isn't it?

J6: It's a photo I think you may have seen. I folded it up so I could see the shapes, and then I kind of held it up to the piece, just trying to see how black and white shapes would look in the piece, and I really liked how that looked. And then I got the idea that it kind of looked like tombstones, and that led me to an idea that it would be cool to have some sort of tree or body part or something like that in there. I usually just rely on my intuition.

CP: When you work that way, and you get an idea like that, do you try to make it obvious? Are you trying to make it clear to someone who's looking at it, or are you trying to merely suggest?

J6: No, I like to suggest. Like with the cones. I called it "81 Cones" and I said in my description that it was my interpretation of the female form. And then I think I said that I found humor in the word cones, or something like that. (Laughs) I left the rest up to the viewer.

CP: That's interesting, because that's clearly part of the image--what it suggests. But also, I'm looking at another one here that also uses the cones, and it's almost... it reminds me of a topographical map. You've picked more earthy colors and it almost reminds me of a satellite photo or something like that. Maybe an alien landscape.

J6: Yeah, well, that was another thing I was playing around with. I was making all different sizes of cones and then sort of making landscapes. You read my mind! (Laughs)

CP: OK--we've found your description of "81 Cones". It says, "This is my interpretation of the female form. I like to use geometric forms because I think they're universally appealing. I also find humor in the word cones." You're sort of getting into a Monty Python thing there--that some words are just inherently funny.

J6: Yeah, well, when I think of the word 'cones' and how it applies to breasts, it just strikes me as very funny.

CP: And is there some significance in the number 81 or did it just end up being 81?

J6: It's a nine-patch. It harkens back to the traditional thing. And then I did nine nine-patches.

CP: This piece that I'm looking at--with a lot of chartreuse in it--this is the one with the hand-dyed fabric, right? Did you just see that fabric and decide to make something around that color?

J6: Yeah, well that fabric has a nice story, because what happened is, a friend of mine went to a weeklong workshop to learn how to hand-dye fabric. And she had a whole bunch of fabric that she did, but this was the only green that she had done. And she knew I loved the green and she gave it to me as a gift. And so it's special because it's got some history.

CP: OK, so here's a loaded question: Do you like fabric art?

J6: Of course! I love it! All aspects of it. I do fabric art. Another person might stick to the traditional bear paws pattern or whatever and, you know, make quilts for all the grandkids. I think that's awesome. I love the whole range. Someone might work with only one quilt pattern their whole life and that's all they do. They're still doing it, and that's the important part. I have an appreciation for all of it. As far as what I want to do, that's different. But I can look at someone else's work, even if it's not something I would do, and say, "Wow--that's amazing!"

CP: How much of it do you think is craft and how much do you think is art? I guess what I'm asking is related to how people view the various art forms and mediums. Photography, for instance, has always been undervalued as an art form as far as I'm concerned, because people view it as a technical thing--maybe a craft--whereas painters are seen as "real" artists. With fabric art, especially with people who don't do it and who don't understand what's involved, I think people tend to look at it with a slightly biased eye and say, "Well, that's nice, but it's not really art," because it's not made from paint or bronze or marble or whatever.

J6: Well, here's where I get on my high horse, I guess, because I think that's a very patriarchal way of looking at things. Western art has traditionally been dominated by men: Michelangelo, DaVinci, Picasso... And they tended to work with paint and bronze and marble and so forth. And I think that has defined peoples' view of what constitutes "real" art. So anything that's tied to women's traditions, like sewing, for example, is automatically put into the craft category. And in western culture, I think the ways in which women have traditionally expressed themselves aren't valued as highly as what men have traditionally done. I don't think painting is any more or less of a craft than quilt making. But many people view painting as somehow more "legitimate" than fabric art. I've done both, and I disagree.

CP: That raises the question of how important that is. And you've said that you aren't terribly concerned with the technical aspects of quilt making...

J6: Yeah. I'm not terribly concerned. And I don't think I'll ever be a master of the technique of quilt making. I can't see myself as one of those people who can do this hand-quilting that's so perfect and the trapunto and all that. (Laughter) I'm not going to be doing that, but I have a high regard for it. Personally, I'm too impatient, though. I've only ever hand-quilted one little tiny thing, and that's probably all I'll ever do.

CP: You don't hand-quilt any of this?

J6: Oh, no.

CP: So do you think you can get better at the art part of fabric art independently from the craft of sewing?

J6: No. I don't think it's separated in any way. It's all twisted and turned around and integrated. Hopefully, I'll get better at both.

CP: In this piece (pointing to the coffee cup piece) I can see the sculptural aspects and the painting-with-fabric aspects, but also, there's the addition of the black stitching, where you're essentially "sketching" with the black thread.

J6: Yeah. Since I did that piece, which really only started as a way to get some relief from making all those cones, I've been working a lot with that idea. I really like that look of imperfection. I love the Amish tradition of intentionally putting an imperfection in their quilts--turning one of their blocks upside-down or something like that to show that they're not so prideful that they think they're as perfect as God.

CP: One thing that occurs to me as I look at this work in progress on your wall is that you've got these repeating eyes up here and these repeating cones over here. A lot of what's involved in making a traditional quilt is repetition. It can be incredibly attractive to see these repeating patterns. And I wonder what influences what. Did quilting inspire you to start thinking in that way? Or did you come to it because you were already thinking in those terms and quiltmaking was the perfect way to express that?

J6: I think quilting appealed to me partly because of the repetition. It's probably the same reason I like working in a bank. I'm very left-brained, and I look at things in a sort of structured way. If I wasn't an artist, I think I'd probably be a scientist. My family sort of tends toward obsessive-compulsive behavior, so I'm naturally attracted to that kind of structure and repetition. I love taking one thing and multiplying it many times.

CP: Did you do that when you were painting?

J6: Yeah, sort of. I was on a reptilian kick where I was painting a lot of scales. But it feels more natural in some way to be doing this. It fits the medium so well. I was watching this thing on PBS the other night about Alfred Kinsey, and apparently he started as an entomologist--collecting bugs. They showed his golden wasp collection, with all these bugs lined up in rows, and it really reminded me of what I do. It was all these thousands of bugs in little boxes, and it looked so cool to me. I can relate, you know? (Laughs)

CP: Well, we've talked a bit about that, and clearly that's territory that a lot of artists have explored--the idea of repetition of an image to create a new image. Especially, of course, in Pop art. Do you feel you're influenced by that movement at all?

J6: It's not an area I'm real familiar with, but I definitely like what people like Warhol were doing with repeating images. When I think of stuff like my eyeball project, it reminds me of that a bit. Sometimes I think it's become a little too engrained in our culture, but taking a photo of Marilyn Monroe and repeating it in different colors is definitely quilt-like.

CP: Why do you think repetition is so attractive? I've always thought that one of the great marketing ideas was the way places like the Gap, for instance, put all these identical t-shirts on display in every color imaginable--all neatly folded and carefully lined up. You just want them. Not just one, but the whole display. Because the repetition of form in all these colors is the real object of desire. When you buy just one and take it home, it's no fun at all. Because you want all the colors. The repetition is the thing you want to take home. The only way it really works is if you buy the whole pile.

J6: Yeah--it's great capitalism. You have to have one of every color so they'll look good in your closet. (Laughter)

CP: How important is community in this whole process? Quilting, obviously, is traditionally very much a community thing, with quilting bees and the sort of mother-to-daughter tradition of teaching. Are you a part of that, or do you tend to work alone?

J6: Lately I've been working alone because we just moved and I don't know anybody. But it's very important. I used to get together with friends on a weekly basis, and we would all sit together and work on our various projects. And having other people around to bounce ideas off of and discuss ways of doing things was really great. When I painted, I always worked alone. And when I'm first visualizing a piece, I prefer it as well. But when I'm doing the actual work, it's way better to be with a group of people.

CP: And at that point, you can't really go hang out with traditional quilters because they'd be constantly asking you what the heck you're doing: "That's an awful lot of cones and eyeballs, dear. What do you plan to do with those?" (Laughter)

CP: Do you have any little tidbits or pieces of sage advice that you've picked up along the way that you'd care to share with our readers?

J6: One of my favorite sayings--getting back to the Amish--is: "Idle hands are the devil's workshop." I try to think of that when I feel like I'm getting lazy or watching too much television. Actually, I try to remind myself of that no matter what I'm doing. You've just got to keep working. No matter what you're into, just keep doing.

CP (Mark): One last question: This machine here (pointing to a computer-controlled Pfaff 2040) do you actually use this?

J6: (Laughing) Yes. As a sewing machine. For straight stitching and a little zigzag. That's about it. The rest is just for show. (Laughs)

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